Dr. Couch, I have been told that every time one sees the word "saint" in the Bible, Old or New Testament, it has to do with the church saints, or all the saints of Scripture, both Jewish saints and church saints. What do you say?
ANSWER: Wrong! The Bible makes it clear that there are saints in different dispensations but they are not all balled up together into one big lump. In the OT there is a family of words that come from the Hebrew word kah-dohsh that can be translated "holy," "saint," "sanctified." In all cases when applied to people it would be to the Jewish people, though maybe there would be an instance or two in which it would apply to some faithful Gentile. But that Gentile would be living in OT times and the reference would certainly not be about the church, the spiritual body of Christ.
In Daniel 7, "saint" is used seven times with the reference to the citizens of the coming messianic kingdom. Our poor Covenant theological guys would see kingdom as the church but of course they would be wrong, as usual! In 7:18 it says the saints "will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come." And in verse 22, the same thing is said. Now it would not make sense to say the saints "take possession of the church"! The Covenant guys are not very good observers. They bring their theology to the verses instead of allowing the verses to create their theology!
In verse 25 it says that the antichrist (the other horn who comes out of the ten) "will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One." This happens in the tribulation and the church saints have already been raptured. So this is not referencing church saints, however, could it be referring to Jewish and Gentile saints during that seven year period of wrath? If so, we would simply label them together as "tribulation saints."
Yet, more than likely, saints here are Jewish believers. This is what Daniel would have in mind in the context in chapter 7 of Daniel. But too, note that verse 25 says the antichrist will "wear down the saints of the Most High." This fits perfectly with Revelation 12 where it is stated that Satan pursues the woman, who in John's illustration, is the nation of Israel which gives birth to the "child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (v. 5). It is said further that Satan goes off to make war with the woman "and with her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" (v. 17). This Revelation 12 scenario fits perfectly with Daniel's reference to the "saints" whom the antichrist attempts to pursue and wear down, destroy.
On Daniel 7 and the reference to "saints," Unger writes: "The ultimate outcome, reflected in the fifth Kingdom (the Millennium), will be that 'the saints of the Most High' (vv. 22, 25, 27), that is, the saved Jewish remnant that will pass through the Great Tribulation shall take (receive) 'the kingdom', according to the covenants and promises made to Israel in connection with it."
In summary, there are (1) OT saints, (2) church saints, (3) tribulation saints (whether Jew or Gentile). OT saints nor the tribulation saints are seen as being in the church, the spiritual body of Christ. The body of Christ is a unique entity of both Jew and Gentile, which has a special place and a special mission in this dispensation.
Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch
ANSWER: Wrong! The Bible makes it clear that there are saints in different dispensations but they are not all balled up together into one big lump. In the OT there is a family of words that come from the Hebrew word kah-dohsh that can be translated "holy," "saint," "sanctified." In all cases when applied to people it would be to the Jewish people, though maybe there would be an instance or two in which it would apply to some faithful Gentile. But that Gentile would be living in OT times and the reference would certainly not be about the church, the spiritual body of Christ.
In Daniel 7, "saint" is used seven times with the reference to the citizens of the coming messianic kingdom. Our poor Covenant theological guys would see kingdom as the church but of course they would be wrong, as usual! In 7:18 it says the saints "will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come." And in verse 22, the same thing is said. Now it would not make sense to say the saints "take possession of the church"! The Covenant guys are not very good observers. They bring their theology to the verses instead of allowing the verses to create their theology!
In verse 25 it says that the antichrist (the other horn who comes out of the ten) "will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One." This happens in the tribulation and the church saints have already been raptured. So this is not referencing church saints, however, could it be referring to Jewish and Gentile saints during that seven year period of wrath? If so, we would simply label them together as "tribulation saints."
Yet, more than likely, saints here are Jewish believers. This is what Daniel would have in mind in the context in chapter 7 of Daniel. But too, note that verse 25 says the antichrist will "wear down the saints of the Most High." This fits perfectly with Revelation 12 where it is stated that Satan pursues the woman, who in John's illustration, is the nation of Israel which gives birth to the "child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (v. 5). It is said further that Satan goes off to make war with the woman "and with her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" (v. 17). This Revelation 12 scenario fits perfectly with Daniel's reference to the "saints" whom the antichrist attempts to pursue and wear down, destroy.
On Daniel 7 and the reference to "saints," Unger writes: "The ultimate outcome, reflected in the fifth Kingdom (the Millennium), will be that 'the saints of the Most High' (vv. 22, 25, 27), that is, the saved Jewish remnant that will pass through the Great Tribulation shall take (receive) 'the kingdom', according to the covenants and promises made to Israel in connection with it."
In summary, there are (1) OT saints, (2) church saints, (3) tribulation saints (whether Jew or Gentile). OT saints nor the tribulation saints are seen as being in the church, the spiritual body of Christ. The body of Christ is a unique entity of both Jew and Gentile, which has a special place and a special mission in this dispensation.
Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch
