Dr. Couch, how do we demonstrate from the OT that when we die we do not simply sleep, as some Rabbis say? I understand that most Jews do not hold to the view that people are simply asleep when they die.
ANSWER: In both the OT and the NT the passages speak of being asleep when one dies. However, remember Luke 16 and the death of the wealthy man who went into torment, and the poor man who when he died resided on Abraham's bosom. You say, but that passage is in the NT. No, not really. The Gospels are still in, and part of, the OT. The NT dispensation of the church does not begin until Acts 2 and Pentecost. So whatever Christ said was still part of the dispensation of the Law, the OT.
Luke 16 makes it clear that both the lost (the unbelieving wealthy man) and the poor man (the believer) were awake and aware of their existence though they had died. The idea of "being asleep" comes from what the body looks like at death. It appears to be asleep—eyes closed and still. But the soul and spirit is very conscious and awake!
Mark 9:48 says with death "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." Everyone admits that this is making a statement of the pain of death for the lost and consciousness. The torment of judgment goes on and on! This actually is quoting Isaiah 66:24. "They shall go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Though the passage is in poetic form, the Rabbis say on "their fire": "The fire of Gehenna which will purge their souls." This would be most correct. There is a spiritual judgment going on that transcends the physical, though the passage speaks of the physical because it is difficult for us to fully grasp the spiritual elements in the passage.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for asking.
—Dr. Mal Couch (3/11)
Showing posts with label Luke 16. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Luke 16. Show all posts
Tuesday, March 29, 2011
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
Luke 16 and Hell
Dr. Couch, is Luke 16:19-31 is a good illustration of hell today? Or, is punishment different today under the dispensation of the church age? What do you say?
ANSWER: Since Christ mentions the name of the poor man Lazarus, this story is not simply a parable but a true happening that explained to those in the dispensation of the Law that there is bliss for the believer and suffering for the unbeliever after death. However, now there are some differences in regard to what happens to the saved and the lost at death.
Lazarus, though a poor man was experiencing the blessings of a believer by being placed with father Abraham after his death. He is on Abraham's bosom after his death (v. 22), resting on his chest, meaning that he was being comforted by Abraham the faithful one. But the rich man was buried and was suffering in the grave "being in torment" asking for mercy, experiencing the suffering of the flames "in agony" (vv. 23-24). This story is in poetic form in the fact that we know he was not simply suffering physical torment but actual spiritual suffering. The physical actually turns to dust.
The wealthy man wanted the Lord to send a warning to his five living brothers so that they would not "come to this place" (v. 28). But Abraham said "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them" (v. 29). "They will repent if someone comes to speak to them from the dead," the rich man said (v. 30). Abraham answers "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead" (v. 31).
Apparently, the saved and the lost, before the death of Christ, were allowed to experience blessings (for the saved) and pain (for the lost). Christ's work was not completed and finished for the issue of dying for sin. However, after His death, burial, and crucifixion, the saved then go directly into the presence of the Lord, and the lost go directly into hell—the place of punishment—even though there was some experience of this, to a degree, prior to the work of the Lord on the cross.
I wrote in my Luke Commentary: There are certain things that can apply now to the issue of death which we can find in this story. (1) There is consciousness after death, (2) there is bliss for the righteous and torment for the wicked, (3) there is regret for what is done in life, (4) great spiritual consequences follow after death, (5) the die is cast in this life, with no "second chance" in view, and, (6) the witness of the prophets (and later the writings of the apostles) is sufficient so that one can know the truth. However, the hardness of the hearts of the lost is so great that even the witness of one coming forth from the dead will not persuade those who are spiritually resisting.
I added: Most scholars believe that the death of the Lord Jesus atoned for the sins of all the righteous who lived before the crucifixion and had a saving trust in God. This belief comes from Romans 3:25. Jesus as a propitiation (a place of satisfaction with God concerning sin), demonstrated "His righteousness, because of the forbearance of God (who then) passed over the sins previously committed." That is, there was a waiting period in which God passed over sins until Christ completed His work for sin on the cross. On this side of the death of Christ, when a believe dies, he goes directly into the presence of God. As the apostle Paul writes, "I … prefer (now) rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8).
At the very end of time, Revelation pictures in heaven "myriads and thousands of thousands praising the Lamb who is worthy to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing" (5:11-12). And the lost, after being judged at the Great White Throne are seen as being "thrown into the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (20:14-15). Matthew 25:46 can be applied to all the unrighteous and the righteous. "And these (the lost) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (saved) into eternal life."
I hope this helps. Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch (3/11)
ANSWER: Since Christ mentions the name of the poor man Lazarus, this story is not simply a parable but a true happening that explained to those in the dispensation of the Law that there is bliss for the believer and suffering for the unbeliever after death. However, now there are some differences in regard to what happens to the saved and the lost at death.
Lazarus, though a poor man was experiencing the blessings of a believer by being placed with father Abraham after his death. He is on Abraham's bosom after his death (v. 22), resting on his chest, meaning that he was being comforted by Abraham the faithful one. But the rich man was buried and was suffering in the grave "being in torment" asking for mercy, experiencing the suffering of the flames "in agony" (vv. 23-24). This story is in poetic form in the fact that we know he was not simply suffering physical torment but actual spiritual suffering. The physical actually turns to dust.
The wealthy man wanted the Lord to send a warning to his five living brothers so that they would not "come to this place" (v. 28). But Abraham said "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them" (v. 29). "They will repent if someone comes to speak to them from the dead," the rich man said (v. 30). Abraham answers "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead" (v. 31).
Apparently, the saved and the lost, before the death of Christ, were allowed to experience blessings (for the saved) and pain (for the lost). Christ's work was not completed and finished for the issue of dying for sin. However, after His death, burial, and crucifixion, the saved then go directly into the presence of the Lord, and the lost go directly into hell—the place of punishment—even though there was some experience of this, to a degree, prior to the work of the Lord on the cross.
I wrote in my Luke Commentary: There are certain things that can apply now to the issue of death which we can find in this story. (1) There is consciousness after death, (2) there is bliss for the righteous and torment for the wicked, (3) there is regret for what is done in life, (4) great spiritual consequences follow after death, (5) the die is cast in this life, with no "second chance" in view, and, (6) the witness of the prophets (and later the writings of the apostles) is sufficient so that one can know the truth. However, the hardness of the hearts of the lost is so great that even the witness of one coming forth from the dead will not persuade those who are spiritually resisting.
I added: Most scholars believe that the death of the Lord Jesus atoned for the sins of all the righteous who lived before the crucifixion and had a saving trust in God. This belief comes from Romans 3:25. Jesus as a propitiation (a place of satisfaction with God concerning sin), demonstrated "His righteousness, because of the forbearance of God (who then) passed over the sins previously committed." That is, there was a waiting period in which God passed over sins until Christ completed His work for sin on the cross. On this side of the death of Christ, when a believe dies, he goes directly into the presence of God. As the apostle Paul writes, "I … prefer (now) rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8).
At the very end of time, Revelation pictures in heaven "myriads and thousands of thousands praising the Lamb who is worthy to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing" (5:11-12). And the lost, after being judged at the Great White Throne are seen as being "thrown into the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (20:14-15). Matthew 25:46 can be applied to all the unrighteous and the righteous. "And these (the lost) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (saved) into eternal life."
I hope this helps. Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch (3/11)
Saturday, April 17, 2010
Meaning of Luke 16:14-17
| Dr. Couch, what is going on in Luke 16:14-17? I know you wrote a nationally published commentary on Luke, so you have some idea of what the Lord is talking about.
ANSWER: Christ is speaking to the Pharisees because He knew they were lovers of money. Before men, they were trying to justify themselves and yet God the Father knew their hearts. Before John the Baptist began proclaiming the gospel (good news) of the coming Messianic Kingdom (the kingdom of God), the Pharisees bragged in their Law-keeping. But then some of them saw the benefit of following after the kingdom, whereby the rigors of the Law were eased. While the preaching and the offer of the Kingdom was the new message, the Lord reminded them that the Law was still around, for "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail" (v. 17).
The millennial Kingdom at that point would be rejected and the belief in the simple gospel would be proclaimed after the crucifixion of Christ, and yet it too would be spurned. But the Jews, especially the Pharisees, could not escape the Law! This does not mean that they were to be saved by "Law-keeping." I wrote in my commentary:
But God knew their hearts (v. 15a). What men esteem, God detests (v. 15b). He then added that since the coming of John the Baptist, everyone was trying to force his way into the kingdom of God (v. 16), "but it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail" (v. 17). Many of the Jews wanted the benefits of the kingdom proclaimed by John and the Lord Jesus, but the rigors of the Law and its conviction about the nature of sin were being ignored. God was examining hearts, and the judgment of the Law was standing.
Everything Jesus was teaching was being scoffed at (v. 14). People want the easy route and do not want to live by the truth. The legalists of Christ day would pretend to keep the Law but in the long run they would reject both the Kingdom offer and the simple way of faith in the gospel.
Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch
(Apr., 10)
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