Fires of Gehenna

Dr. Couch, do you believe the fires of Gehenna are literal or not?

ANSWER: I believe they are worse than described in Scripture. The Bible uses the concept of fire to describe the terror and pain of hell. This is a physical description. Those who suffer the fires of hell will actually be in an eternal body. Their sins must be punished as required by the righteousness and holiness of a perfect God.

All men have had an opportunity to turn to God, repent, and find the way to salvation through Christ, but none will accept this opportunity of salvation. They repudiate God and defy Him. There is no doubt that they must face an eternity of suffering. We don't fully understand how the flames continue forever but the Bible is certain on that issue. This is a terrible picture but it is verified by the prophets and by Christ Himself.

Man is responsible but he also hates God and refuses to accept His provision for deliverance. I like 1 Corinthians 2:14 because it explains the total depravity of the human race. Paul says the natural man ACCEPTS NOT the things of the Spirit of God. Those things are FOOLISHNESS to him. And he CANNOT UNDERSTAND them, because those things are SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTANDABLE!

Man just does not want what God offers in Christ!

Graphically and poetically, but with accuracy of fact, the lost are cast into hell "where their worm does not die, and the ire is not quenched" (Mark 9:48). This comes from Isaiah 66:24: "For the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind." The lost will face "disgrace and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2). Notice, it is "everlasting."

Christ added that the lost will "go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46). Whatever the physical state, it is an eternal state!

Thanks for asking.
—Dr. Mal Couch (5/11)

Simply Sleeping After Death

Dr. Couch, how do we demonstrate from the OT that when we die we do not simply sleep, as some Rabbis say? I understand that most Jews do not hold to the view that people are simply asleep when they die.

ANSWER: In both the OT and the NT the passages speak of being asleep when one dies. However, remember Luke 16 and the death of the wealthy man who went into torment, and the poor man who when he died resided on Abraham's bosom. You say, but that passage is in the NT. No, not really. The Gospels are still in, and part of, the OT. The NT dispensation of the church does not begin until Acts 2 and Pentecost. So whatever Christ said was still part of the dispensation of the Law, the OT.

Luke 16 makes it clear that both the lost (the unbelieving wealthy man) and the poor man (the believer) were awake and aware of their existence though they had died. The idea of "being asleep" comes from what the body looks like at death. It appears to be asleep—eyes closed and still. But the soul and spirit is very conscious and awake!

Mark 9:48 says with death "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." Everyone admits that this is making a statement of the pain of death for the lost and consciousness. The torment of judgment goes on and on! This actually is quoting Isaiah 66:24. "They shall go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind."

Though the passage is in poetic form, the Rabbis say on "their fire": "The fire of Gehenna which will purge their souls." This would be most correct. There is a spiritual judgment going on that transcends the physical, though the passage speaks of the physical because it is difficult for us to fully grasp the spiritual elements in the passage.

I hope this helps.
Thanks for asking.
—Dr. Mal Couch (3/11)

Luke 16 and Hell

Dr. Couch, is Luke 16:19-31 is a good illustration of hell today? Or, is punishment different today under the dispensation of the church age? What do you say?

ANSWER: Since Christ mentions the name of the poor man Lazarus, this story is not simply a parable but a true happening that explained to those in the dispensation of the Law that there is bliss for the believer and suffering for the unbeliever after death. However, now there are some differences in regard to what happens to the saved and the lost at death.

Lazarus, though a poor man was experiencing the blessings of a believer by being placed with father Abraham after his death. He is on Abraham's bosom after his death (v. 22), resting on his chest, meaning that he was being comforted by Abraham the faithful one. But the rich man was buried and was suffering in the grave "being in torment" asking for mercy, experiencing the suffering of the flames "in agony" (vv. 23-24). This story is in poetic form in the fact that we know he was not simply suffering physical torment but actual spiritual suffering. The physical actually turns to dust.

The wealthy man wanted the Lord to send a warning to his five living brothers so that they would not "come to this place" (v. 28). But Abraham said "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them" (v. 29). "They will repent if someone comes to speak to them from the dead," the rich man said (v. 30). Abraham answers "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead" (v. 31).

Apparently, the saved and the lost, before the death of Christ, were allowed to experience blessings (for the saved) and pain (for the lost). Christ's work was not completed and finished for the issue of dying for sin. However, after His death, burial, and crucifixion, the saved then go directly into the presence of the Lord, and the lost go directly into hell—the place of punishment—even though there was some experience of this, to a degree, prior to the work of the Lord on the cross.

I wrote in my Luke Commentary: There are certain things that can apply now to the issue of death which we can find in this story. (1) There is consciousness after death, (2) there is bliss for the righteous and torment for the wicked, (3) there is regret for what is done in life, (4) great spiritual consequences follow after death, (5) the die is cast in this life, with no "second chance" in view, and, (6) the witness of the prophets (and later the writings of the apostles) is sufficient so that one can know the truth. However, the hardness of the hearts of the lost is so great that even the witness of one coming forth from the dead will not persuade those who are spiritually resisting.

I added: Most scholars believe that the death of the Lord Jesus atoned for the sins of all the righteous who lived before the crucifixion and had a saving trust in God. This belief comes from Romans 3:25. Jesus as a propitiation (a place of satisfaction with God concerning sin), demonstrated "His righteousness, because of the forbearance of God (who then) passed over the sins previously committed." That is, there was a waiting period in which God passed over sins until Christ completed His work for sin on the cross. On this side of the death of Christ, when a believe dies, he goes directly into the presence of God. As the apostle Paul writes, "I … prefer (now) rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8).

At the very end of time, Revelation pictures in heaven "myriads and thousands of thousands praising the Lamb who is worthy to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing" (5:11-12). And the lost, after being judged at the Great White Throne are seen as being "thrown into the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (20:14-15). Matthew 25:46 can be applied to all the unrighteous and the righteous. "And these (the lost) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (saved) into eternal life."

I hope this helps. Thanks for asking.
Dr. Mal Couch (3/11)

Revelation 22:15

Dr. Couch, I recently heard of a strange view of Revelation 22:15 that says "the dogs and the sorcerers and immoral persons" out side the new city of Jerusalem has to do with carnal believers who are not allowed inside the new city and its gates. I know of "good guys" who hold to this view. ANSWER: The verse reads: "Outside [the eternal city of Jerusalem] are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." As you well pointed out no Bible scholar worth his salt would hold to the view that this has to do with believers. While we take the Bible literally, it still has illustrations and metaphors to get across these literal concepts. I point out in my "Handbook to Revelation" that 21:27 is a key to understanding what is going on in 22:15. 21:27 reads: "Nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into [the new, eternal city of Jerusalem], but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." This is called "a future of emphatic negation." 22:15 is also a form of hyperbole as well as a metaphor. The lost are in hell. But the point is that nothing sinful, unclean, or evil, even if it were not confined to hell, shall ever enter the new Jerusalem. This is a form of exaggeration in order to get across a point. Thanks for asking. Dr. Mal Couch (11/10)

Christ Went to Hell

Dr. Couch, I still hear there are teachers that argue Christ went to hell when He died. Where do they get this idea? ANSWER:  Most use 1 Peter 3:19 that reads: Christ "also went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah ..." They say "the prison" was hell where the unsaved were confined.    Some charismatics argue that He had to go to hell because He was a sinner and had to suffer there to placate God in order to rid us of our sins. Those who take this position or argue that the Lord was confined for a period in hell miss the context completely. "Made proclamation" is "karruso" and is the common word "to preach, proclaim."  He did this with those who were disobedient (or disbelieving) while the ark was being constructed by Noah. Check out the full context of the passage. So this is not a general statement that indicates Christ is somehow being judged or seen as a sinner in hell. The "prison" could be the place of waiting for the final stage of judgment for the lost. The Lord is not being confined there as if He is a sinner.    By the way, "to proclaim" can mean "to herald," "to cry aloud." The Lord Jesus was making clear what the disobedient people in Noah's time had given up. Christ was telling them this.    The "spirits in prison" have been interpreted as confined evil angels in relation to Genesis 6:1-4. I am glad to see the comments of William Baker in my Commentary series on 1 & 2 Peter. We agree that these spirits in prison are humans and not fallen angels.    Baker writes what I hold to: He says "My opinion is that Genesis 6:1-4 is connected primarily with Genesis 5, which lists the genealogy of Adam and his descendants; thus, the reference to 'sons of God' and 'daughters of men' is to Adam's descendants." Baker goes on and writes: "Based on my interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4, I reject the interpretation of 'spirits in prison' as angels and understand them to be human beings who were disobedient during the period of Noah's preaching."    To conclude: Christ was sharing what was true with the generation that was rejecting the revelation of Noah, but this does not mean He was somehow "judged" or confined in hell, as some try to argue.    It is good to see Bible scholars "think" and not just follow what they've heard others say!    This 1 Peter passage is difficult but my interpretation, along with Baker's, is right and makes common sense. Do not go to the flamboyant and "way-out" interpretations, and don't simply quote what someone else has said.    Thanks for asking.    Dr. Mal Couch (8/10)

Did Christ Go Into Hell Following His crucifixion

Dr. Couch, did Christ go into hell following His crucifixion as it seems to imply in 1 Peter 3:19-20? 

 

    This is a tough passage with many different views, but I will give you my take on it from the Greek text. 

    Some believe by these verses that the Lord went to hell and preached salvation, giving those who heard His message a second chance. The “spirits” to whom He made proclamation had to be the lost because it says they were “the spirits now in prison,” and that would not be referring to the redeemed. The Lord is “making proclamation” only to those who “once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark.” It would seem that Christ was giving to them an explanation of all that happened. That He would be giving them a second chance is not implied in the passage. So this is an unusual happening that probably took place only once in God’s dealing with lost humanity. 

    Some charismatics make a big deal about Christ going to hell to somehow finish His redemptive work, in that He had to prove Himself (and for Himself) triumphant over sin and death. This is also not implied in this passage. And, in my opinion, that He went to the underworld prison, does not negate the fact that He told the repentant thief on the cross that he would be in Paradise with the Lord that day. The timing of all of these events, we just have no information about. 

    The in which (to) in verse 19 can be a neuter article, thus referring back to “spirit” in verse 18. The “spirit” here then should be the Holy Spirit, and thus should be capitalized. By the work of the Spirit, the Lord went to the “prison” of the lost who rejected the offer of salvation before the Flood. 

    Putting all the points together I mentioned above makes sense to me. Do not follow what I call “hysterical” interpretations that want to over sensationalize such passages of Scripture and arrive at some crazy, non-rational view! Fly the airplane straight and do not get off course! 

Thanks for asking.

Dr. Mal Couch

Doubting the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment

Dr. Couch, I have some friends who are doubting the doctrine of eternal punishment. Is this a growing trend? 

 

   Yes, of course. And it is just warmed over liberalism creeping into our churches, and even into our Evangelical congregations. The pastors are being mum about strong authoritarian truth. They do not want to appear too dogmatic or biblically pushy. Expect heresy to grow. Without the strong, "Thus saith the Lord" from the pulpit, error will compound. Satan loves what is happening with the growing trend of the lack of teaching of the Bible!

    People get mad at God over the eternal damnation doctrine. "How could God be so mean?" "How could He send people to hell?" The critics never bring up that the Lord has provided a positive way of escape through trust in Christ. The writer of Hebrews even mentions this and writes: "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard" (Heb. 2:3). And, "We have had good news preached to us, … it did not profit [some] because it was not united by faith in those who heard" (4:2).

Below are some of the key passages of Scripture about eternal punishment. The love of God counters this terrible truth by the gospel of salvation found only in Christ Jesus.

• For those who have transgressed against Me, "their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all mankind" (Isa. 66:24; Mark 9:48).
• Many will awake from the dust of the ground, some "to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt (rejection)" (Dan. 12:2).
• The lost "will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46). (Punishment is eternal; new life is eternal!)
• The sinner will be cast into "the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 25:30).
• The unrighteous wealthy man "in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, … and said, 'I am in agony in this flame'" (Luke 16:23-24).
• "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15).

    While the contexts of the above passages may be different, the point is the same. There is an eternal separation from God and there is a punishment for sins that is terrible. Being a righteous and holy God, His justice demands that evil be judged. He cannot have sin in His holy presence! Again, people can escape this sure judgment by trusting Christ as their Savior. God's love counters His justice, but again, it must be accepted by the evil doer. Without Christ, and His substitutionary death for sinners, there is no hope!

    Thanks for asking.

    Dr. Mal Couch

What About The Lost?

Dr. Couch, Do the lost go directly to hell or is there an intermediate place of waiting until the final judgment? 

 

   ANSWER: The final judgment of all of the lost for all dispensations takes place at the end of the millennial kingdom, as clearly indicated in Revelation 20:11-15. The unsaved are seen standing before the great white throne awaiting final sentencing. That the judge is the Lord Jesus seems clear from John 5:27 where Christ says all judgment is handed over to the Son. 

    Many passages of Scripture paint a terrible picture that indicates the lost are in a place of torment even now while waiting for the final judgment. God must punish sin. His holiness and righteous cannot tolerate a speck of evil. His mercy and grace are clearly seen in nature (Rom. 1), and in the offer of salvation in Christ (John 3:16), but the world repudiates both witnesses! 

    The Bible pictures the torents of hell in physical-like terms, though until the final judgment, hell presently would be more spiritual in nature. The lost are resurrected for the final judgment and therefore will be in their resurrected bodies in torment, for ever! Isaiah writes that the corpses of the lost, "those who have transgressed against Me," are continually "consumed." "For their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all humanity" (Isa. 66:24). Daniel says the lost are raised "to everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2). And Christ says of those who have died that even presently "the worm never dies" (Mark 9:48). Christ also said that the new life, and the punishment of the lost, are both eternal and forever and ever! (Matt. 25:46). 

    Thanks for asking.

    Dr. Mal Couch